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What do you do when you encounter a person who has claimed work you know they did not do on their credit list? Does your reaction change when they are in a position to hire you?

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    if they are in a position to hire you, as a part of an 'innocent' conversation it would be fascinating to ask 'so I see you worked on XYZ - thats a great track, how was it working with that director?' - just to hear their response & to gauge the scale of the issue & whether they are complicitous in deception or it is a misunderstanding... – user49 Mar 1 '12 at 7:46
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This is an interesting question, indeed. I agree with Tim and Utopia first and foremost, it does depend upon the scale, yet a lie is a lie.

However my take though quite frankly is that what said person does or credits them self with is none of my business, so I won't make it my business. The same sort of thing hold true when, for example, I visit a colleagues studio and see some session up on their screen. I don't inquire about it, because it's not my business. If they want to share or reach out about it, they will on their own accord. So if this person with the 'interesting' credits wishes to clear up what may be construed as a red-flag, they will on their own accord, or they won't. But then it's on them and them alone to sit with whatever that business may be.

Karmic debt is an interesting force and this will all play itself out behind closed doors so why worry about this person's business? Becoming nosy and gossipy into another's business is said to create karmic debt of your own, and we never want that ;) Now, if this business is having a direct inflicting affect upon someone else, then by all means it becomes not an issue of gossip and personal business but rather than issue which should be looked into and properly addressed by speaking with the appropriate individuals. Or, choose avoid the toxic energy all together.

The post world, at least in LA, is a very small world as I've personally experienced in a variety of facets, and word gets around quick (relatively-speaking) - both positive and negative, about ones body of work, quality of work, and ethics/integrity. So I quess what I'm getting at here is that the karma will clear itself up and take its own course. And why not maintain a clear conscience and self-integrity about minding our own business? :)

That being said, I believe it's healthy though to duly note that something may be amiss with this individual's integrity, dismiss it as being none of our business, and carry on with an enlightened understanding how we can be artists of solid integrity - and even better, be able to retain our sterling integrity when we do have to work in the presence of and become intertwined professionally with those who may not be of that nature, and still not let that deter us from what we do or tarnish our integrity. Essentially, the ability to set healthy boundaries and not shut the door on them or burn the professional work bridge. We are creatures of habit and everyone does the best they can - even that is relative, and someone's 'best' may not be on an equal level to someone else's 'best'. I propose the idea of accepting the situation for what it is with loving compassion as best you can that they're doing the best they can, and maybe that 'best' can get them in a lot of trouble within their own career, but outside of that there's no need to make it our own business unless they reach out or cross a healthy boundary we set with them.

This is my 2 cents anyway, albeit from a philosophical/spiritual angle. Hope it helps!

  • Very nicely said! – Utopia Mar 1 '12 at 23:31
  • I love your vibe and hear what you are saying...but does this change if it is your credit they are claiming? – Karol Urban Mar 11 '12 at 7:29
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    @MixingManiac As hard as it is to say it, I would still hold to the same resolve if it were me in your shoes - because in the end (if it were me), I know that I can bare proof and confidence of my involvement if I ever had to (be it a supervisor, session files, etc). Whereas while this other person may have taken credit now, that's going to be a shadow that follows - sort of the lie built upon a lie concept. It can grow on it's own, take form of an ugly beast which ultimately will resolve it's karmic debt once it's too big to control. – Stavrosound Mar 11 '12 at 10:07
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    @MixingManiac it reminds me of a certain trail case from overseas that (somewhat) resolved recently - I won't state the details here since it's not appropriate content, but the whole thing enlightened me: Regardless of whether this individual was innocent or got away with a crime, I strongly believe that the mind is more powerful - in that potentially living with the guilt of being culpable of something is far greater a burden to bear than any tangible consequence in which the outside world knows of that guilt. So I'd say if you were credited too for your part, it may be best to let it be. – Stavrosound Mar 11 '12 at 10:19
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Leave 'em alone. Karma kills both ways.

Don't work for them because they will exploit you.

Blah, this question puts chills down my spine. Here's to not encountering that situation....ever.

  • i agree, its sad to think that people would lie about something like this. – Benjie Freund Mar 2 '12 at 20:59
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I hate to say "It depends", but sometimes it does. Are they claiming to have cut FX or Dialogue on a feature or series, but aren't listed in the credits? That's entirely possible. Did they say they designed all the sounds for the Star Wars universe or dinosaur vocals in Jurassic Park, knowing full well they had nothing to do with it? That's a different story.

If you know for a fact they're 100% full of BS, then you know what type of person you're dealing with and it wouldn't hurt to steer clear of them. Or at least stick that information in your back pocket so you know what to expect in future dealings.

If they are in a position to hire you, again, you're at least going in knowing what type of person they are.

But I do agree with C3Sound, karma can be a bitch...

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Came across this sort of thing on Twitter and the DUC a couple of weeks ago. The poor chap claimed to have worked on a popular UK series and the chap who was the sound super suddenly appeared on the thread.

http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=316520

How to kill a career before it's started.

Credits are a funny thing. I agree with Tim in that they are not always trying to over blow things. I mixed the Irish language version of The Polar Express. Although I'd like some form of credit for doing the job I would never say I mixed the film, but I did mix a foreign dub.

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    Ian - did you notice the guy mentioned later that he found out he did the foreign versions of the film? That poor guy! Some of those cats were straight-up jerks, and someone told them pretty well about it. That poor kid - welcome to the industry, I guess... – Utopia Mar 1 '12 at 23:26
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I agree with the others - how big of a credit are we talking about here? Is it a name-drop that he says he recorded an ADR session with an A-List celebrity to sound cool? Or is he trying to get others to believe he's someone he's not for personal gain far beyond that of brownie points at the local Akbar - let's say, 4 million dollars in a ponzi scheme?

Ever heard of Brice Carrington?

This has happened before.

http://www.musicofsound.co.nz/blog/the-end-of-the-road

No matter how small a credit he is faking, it will be uncovered by someone somewhere down along the line.

Depending on how severe the claims are, I would not work for him/her. I've had my share of experiences with this type of person and each instance I was better off not taking the job. Check it out and if they are serious "Hi, I am Gary Rydstrom" type claims, look into it. You might have another Brice Flamington on your hands.

  • very true - important to clarify intent & the scale of the situation. I've seen people on IMDB credited as re-recording mixer who did the foreign language dub for certain territories... their intent was honest i.e. to be credited for their work, but could easily be misconstrued... – user49 Mar 1 '12 at 7:42
  • That's true. I have had am IMDB credit pop up from a well meaning producer who credited me with re-record mix on a recut and rebrand verses and original but added no tags to the credit to describe this. I have even had problem adding tags to credits on IMDB as a result of it being an unrecognized "attribute." But, sadly I am afraid this is not the case in my current situation. – Karol Urban Mar 2 '12 at 3:01
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The question can be understood in 2 ways, for me at least :

  • A person claiming credit for someone who worked on the project "for them" and did all the work. In music it's called ghost writing.

  • A person "pretending" to have done work, that he or she didn't do.

I can only speak for myself, but in the second case (which I think you are speaking of), credit is not always listed for many possible legal or practical reasons. So, just because something does not appear on the credit list, or the name does not appear on the final product does not necessarily mean they didn't do the work on it.

So, I'd go for the benefit of the doubt. If it is important, ask straight away, why his name does not appear.

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I have seen a few cases of this. Where someone has claimed to work on a project or for a company. The best thing to do is just leave them alone and not work with them. If they are going to lie about a credit, then there is a chance they will lie about making the sounds or music for you. And if that is the case you run the risk of a law suite because of that person ripping sounds and music off from other people. The only other thing you can do is make people you know in the industry aware. Such as a post like the one you made here.

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